Brands are navigating a rapidly evolving landscape in the age of AI, and this episode dives deep into the intersection of technology, storytelling, and consumer experience. Host Jesse Hirsh is joined by Gabriel Kaam, who shares insights on how AI is reshaping brand strategies and customer interactions. They discuss the importance of striking the right balance between technology and human touch in creating genuine connections with consumers. Gabriel emphasizes that while AI can enhance creativity and efficiency, the emotional resonance of storytelling remains essential for effective marketing. The conversation also touches on the challenges brands face with SEO in a world where AI is transforming how people search for information, leading to new opportunities and potential pitfalls for businesses.
Navigating the future of branding amidst rapid technological advancements takes center stage as Jesse Hirsh interviews Gabriel Kaam. Their conversation highlights the transformative impact of AI on consumer engagement and brand loyalty, where personalized experiences are no longer just a luxury but an expectation. Kaam articulates the challenges brands face in keeping pace with evolving consumer demands while remaining true to their core narratives. The discussion shifts to the French AI landscape, where companies like Mistral represent a burgeoning innovation sector that could rival established players. Hirsh and Kaam reflect on how storytelling remains a vital component of branding, even in an AI-driven world. Kaam posits that effective storytelling, enhanced by AI tools, can bridge the gap between consumers and brands, fostering deeper connections. The episode concludes with a critical look at how brands must strategically navigate the complexities of AI, ensuring that technological integration enhances rather than detracts from the authenticity and emotional resonance of their messaging.
Takeaways:
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Hi, I'm Jesse Hirsch.
Jesse Hirsch 00:00:03
Welcome to Metaviews, recorded live in front of an automated audience.
Jesse Hirsch 00:00:14
And today we're going to tackle a subject I think is rather dynamic and tricky, which is brands in the age of AI.
Jesse Hirsch 00:00:24
And I'm joined by a special guest, Molnuveau Ami Gabriel.
Jesse Hirsch 00:00:29
And this is where I have to tell you a couple of things right at the start of the episode.
Jesse Hirsch 00:00:35
Number one, we have a couple of segments that we use as kind of icebreakers to really tap into the intuition of our guest.
Jesse Hirsch 00:00:44
But this is where I do have to warn you.
Jesse Hirsch 00:00:46
I'm not sure that my audience is particularly interested in, say, e commerce.
Jesse Hirsch 00:00:53
So what we want to do today is kind of tap into your brilliant fusion of technology and business, right, of kind of economy and the way technology is changing economy.
Jesse Hirsch 00:01:05
Because our goal here at Metaviews really is to make the most of our guest, right?
Jesse Hirsch 00:01:10
To really try to harness their brilliance and get you thinking about stuff that maybe you have not previously thought about.
Jesse Hirsch 00:01:19
We start, of course, every episode with Metaviews by talking about the news, partly because we publish a daily newsletter.
Jesse Hirsch 00:01:27
And today we were actually kind of speculating on the impact of the American food system as a result of the immigration crackdown that already in California is causing people not to show up to work out of fear of deportation.
Jesse Hirsch 00:01:43
But, Gabrielle, our main purpose of the news segment is to turn to our guest and say, what news have you been following?
Jesse Hirsch 00:01:51
This could be local news, could be industry news, could be world news, could be personal news.
Jesse Hirsch 00:01:57
You know, the.
Jesse Hirsch 00:01:58
The goal is, what do you think our audience should be paying attention to?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:02:03
I mean, I think it really depends on what your audience is and, like, what I want to focus on.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:02:07
I mean, for me, I'm a geek guy, so I've been, like, passionate about my whole life about technology.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:02:14
So I think the big world right now, I think everybody know, is like, is AI.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:02:18
So, I mean, it's like.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:02:19
It's like a pretty covert subject.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:02:21
But if you want to dip into that with, like, maybe like, another angle, I would love to, but I'm open to whatever.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:02:27
You know, it's like, I mean, yeah.
Jesse Hirsch 00:02:30
To that point, AI is a huge, sprawling ecosystem.
Jesse Hirsch 00:02:34
Presently, I'm going to focus on something that our audience would be interested in but doesn't have access to.
Jesse Hirsch 00:02:42
Tell me about the French AI industry because so much of the global press focuses on America and China, and yet France does have a fairly advanced AI industry.
Jesse Hirsch 00:02:55
So as an observer, as a geek, give us your perspective on the folks closer to home, as it were.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:02
Yeah, I mean, yeah, you're right.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:03
I mean, the U.S.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:04
of course, has been dominating the market and what's been pushing forward the boundaries of what AI is and what is capable and what we can expect in the future.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:13
But you probably saw, you know, the new AI.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:15
I think the name is Deep Seq, right?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:17
Coming just from China.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:20
I mean, I was traveling like, for the past like, 15 days.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:22
So I've just read a bit about it.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:24
So, I mean, I just tried it like today for like a couple of minutes.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:27
But yeah, it seems interesting.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:28
But when.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:29
When it comes to France, I mean, I feel like France, of course we have Mistral.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:34
I don't know.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:34
I mean, I know about it.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:36
I.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:36
It's known in France, I think it's known overseas.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:38
I don't know how much the name is known versus, like, other competitors, like, you know, like Chat GPT or Clothes or something like that.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:46
So have you heard of them?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:49
This.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:50
This French startup called Mistral?
Jesse Hirsch 00:03:52
Yes, very much so.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:54
Yeah.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:03:55
So, I mean, for me, I'm not an expert in AI, but I know when I first saw the news, I was like, okay, interesting, because I do know, because, you know, my sister lives in California and she's.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:04:06
She's been studying there for a bit.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:04:07
Like, she was in UC Berkeley, and we were talking about the difference education systems when it comes to the US and the French.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:04:16
And I do believe that the French, we have a really good engineering system and really good engineers.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:04:24
But sometimes when it comes to like, the newest technology, like, we are not at the front end, you know, like when it comes to like, anything like social media, we haven't created like, anything, you know, like when it comes to E commerce, stuff like that.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:04:36
So it's actually pretty good and make me, like, proud, you know, like to see like a company like Mistral who comes a little bit out of nowhere, you know, like, because they kind of release late versus, like the was already big when they were like, oh, we're gonna learn something else.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:04:51
And I was like, okay.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:04:53
I is that is because, you know, like, French startup, they could go either way.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:04:57
They could be like, really, like, really, really good and surprise you.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:01
Oh, they could be like, oh, my God, that's.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:03
That's kind of like, disappointing.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:05
And like, you should probably not have released that, you know, But I think Mistral lands on the first category, right?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:11
Like, they're pretty good competing, like the highest level.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:14
So of course it's.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:15
I mean, it's good for the technology.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:17
It's good.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:17
And I think it's.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:18
Maybe it's going to make people less afraid to try AI because it's French.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:23
Right.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:23
So sometimes people are like, well, it's us, China.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:26
We don't know what you're going to do with our data.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:27
We don't want to influence anything, so they might step on that.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:31
But Mistral being like a really good competitor and really accessible and they're doing just like, just a French way.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:37
You know, I love the website.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:38
It's just like so simple, so French, so tech, so young.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:05:41
So I don't know, I just love what they're doing.
Jesse Hirsch 00:05:43
Right on.
Jesse Hirsch 00:05:44
And to your point, Deepseek has kind of changed the game.
Jesse Hirsch 00:05:47
So if Mistral's able to adapt, if they're able to learn especially the new technique that Deepseek has kind of developed to your point, they could be a source of French pride.
Jesse Hirsch 00:05:59
Now our second segment of every episode we call WTF or what's the Future?
Jesse Hirsch 00:06:07
Partly because we are a future centric podcast, we really try to focus on what's coming next.
Jesse Hirsch 00:06:14
And again we're looking for a kind of intuitive answer.
Jesse Hirsch 00:06:17
Like in your gut, what do you think our audience should see on their event horizon?
Jesse Hirsch 00:06:23
What are you looking at when it comes to the future?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:06:26
Yeah, I was talking with my girlfriend actually a couple of months ago and we were talking about what's going to be like the next, not the next new thing, but the next thing that's going to be incorporated into people's day to day life.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:06:39
Because you know, ChatGPT was a big thing because everybody could go on ChatGPT and use it.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:06:43
But there's a lot of use cases of AI that only makes sense in industry, e commerce like you know, like company based.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:06:52
So the real people that they don't really care about this and I think we basically land on the idea of a new type of device and I think that was around this time the, the rabits was like starting to pop up and we're like, okay, could this be the new thing?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:07:07
But does it really compete with the phone?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:07:09
We don't really know right now.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:07:11
I'm really excited about the new meta glasses, you know, that integrated AI.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:07:15
So I, I mean I think, I do think and of course it's, it's slower because it's, it's, it's, it takes longer to create like a new device versus like a software.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:07:24
But I do believe, and I do hope we're going to have some pretty new device type, you know, maybe even challenge the, the phone, you know, like in a couple of years to see how they can, you know, hopefully makes, you know, regular people's life easier, be able to connect more with loved ones, you know, I think it could be like, really, really interesting.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:07:47
Like just the glasses, you know, so we were like on traveling, like last year.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:07:51
Last week.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:07:51
Last week, sorry, in Africa, and my girlfriend, I gave her my meta glasses and, you know, like, she could, like, you know, she had her handbag, she had like a bottle of water, but she could still like take pictures and videos around her without having to stop.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:08:06
Put out your phone, you know, and being like this weird, you know, person, you know, looking at you with the phone, it's just like, oh, glasses, you know, ah, Looking at you, saying hi, taking the pictures.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:08:15
That's really fun, you know, So I, I do hope we're gonna see, like a lot of nice devices that can be used by everyone.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:08:22
Not just like tech and geeky people, but just, you know, like, like a mother of two can enjoy at home, you know, or something like this.
Jesse Hirsch 00:08:30
Well, and I'm particularly partial to the rise of smart glasses because I already have stupid glasses.
Jesse Hirsch 00:08:36
And so I would love.
Jesse Hirsch 00:08:38
I've been waiting for these to develop and have both the functionality, but also the price point.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:08:43
Yeah.
Jesse Hirsch 00:08:44
Because I'm sure you saw that Meta prototyped a pair of AR glasses, which they kind of estimate cost around $5,000 to produce, but their capability is really impressive.
Jesse Hirsch 00:08:57
So I'm personally very eager to see that capability arise.
Jesse Hirsch 00:09:03
And I'm curious as we get into our conversation today.
Jesse Hirsch 00:09:06
By all means, I would love to hear your thoughts on the role that fashion plays in achieving what you've just described.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:09:13
Right.
Jesse Hirsch 00:09:14
In creating technology that is both usable but desirable.
Jesse Hirsch 00:09:20
Right.
Jesse Hirsch 00:09:20
And gives people an aesthetic and a style that they desire.
Jesse Hirsch 00:09:24
But, you know, our structure for every episode is when we talk about a feature conversation.
Jesse Hirsch 00:09:31
And this is our turkey prez coming into the roost.
Jesse Hirsch 00:09:34
As our guest sort of comes into the roost.
Jesse Hirsch 00:09:37
I try to take three themes that I use to kind of wrap the conversation with the guest around.
Jesse Hirsch 00:09:44
And when I was researching you, I thought that I would do a brand's storytelling and then SEO.
Jesse Hirsch 00:09:53
Right.
Jesse Hirsch 00:09:54
And try to use those three pillars under the context of AI and how AI is changing the marketplace, how AI is changing our culture.
Jesse Hirsch 00:10:03
And it was interesting when you were describing the meta glasses, you didn't call them Ray Ban.
Jesse Hirsch 00:10:10
Right.
Jesse Hirsch 00:10:11
There's a branding power there that I think is really interesting.
Jesse Hirsch 00:10:15
So I'm curious, as someone who runs an award winning agency, as someone who loves technology, what are the kinds of challenges that brands face when dealing with A dynamic technological environment.
Jesse Hirsch 00:10:29
Right.
Jesse Hirsch 00:10:30
When things are changing constantly.
Jesse Hirsch 00:10:32
And to use the example, people think meta glasses, not necessarily Ray Ban glasses, although that may depend who you ask.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:10:41
Yeah, yeah.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:10:42
I mean it's for brand.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:10:44
It's.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:10:45
I feel like it's, it's like a new, a new era a little bit, you know, with all this new technology.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:10:50
Because I do believe that the world of fashion, fashion loves new things.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:10:56
Fashion loves involvement.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:10:59
You know, like fashion is not like a, an industry that stays stales.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:11:04
You know, we have like new connection every year, new new designer.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:11:08
So we like to try new things, you know.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:11:11
And I do believe that brands are really excited about what they can do more with AI.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:11:16
I think when I talk to brands right now, I think the main focus is how can we improve, of course, customer relations, customer experience.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:11:24
And I do believe that AI brings just like a new era of E commerce, you know, maybe like an era when we can actually have kind of like a one on one conversation with the customers, you know, using like the power of AI and be able to maybe recommend them a better product recommendation.
Jesse Hirsch 00:11:42
Well, and yeah, let me ask a follow up there because I think you're absolutely right that one of the challenges, one of the competitive advantages is making that customer experience way better than everyone else.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:11:56
Yeah.
Jesse Hirsch 00:11:57
Which strikes me that you had this almost inflationary effect that you can't be left behind if people can not only get the personalized experience, but the seamless experience.
Jesse Hirsch 00:12:08
So it just feels easy.
Jesse Hirsch 00:12:10
Their expectation of buying stuff, their expectation of relating to brands is a moving target.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:12:17
Yeah, it's moving higher.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:12:18
Yeah.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:12:18
They're raising the bar every day so you have to keep up.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:12:21
But that's how, you know, I think I'm talking about, I'm thinking about something like a talk about like Steve Jobs in the past about wanting to embrace new technology a bit too early.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:12:31
And that's a trap I think that some people fall into.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:12:34
It's not just because something is new and funny that you should like adapt it.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:12:38
It's all about what value does it bring to your, your customer.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:12:43
Right.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:12:43
So AI is nice, but not every brand need like a new AI assistant, a new AI machine, a new AI.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:12:50
I saw this.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:12:50
I mean, I don't want to, you know, like say any bad thing, but I saw these, these things a couple days ago.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:12:56
But like the AI mirror, like a connected mirror, and I'm like, I mean that's good.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:12:59
That's probably expensive.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:13:00
Like what is the value added to this mirror?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:13:03
I'm like, I mean, maybe they're gonna do great.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:13:05
I'm gonna see like a couple of that.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:13:07
There's a big company, but I was like, okay, I, I see the value, but is the value, like worth the time to go on this machine?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:13:15
You know, so, yeah, it's all about making these choices, you know, like making sure that you focus on the right thing, which is at the end of the day, the customer experience and how they feel about your brand, how they interact with it.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:13:28
And AI allows you to play with that in so many ways.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:13:32
And if you do it right at the end of the day, it's probably going to improve your business and improve hopefully your customer's life.
Jesse Hirsch 00:13:39
Well, how does that relate to the storytelling side of brands and marketing?
Jesse Hirsch 00:13:44
Because we have this paradox where on the one hand, people's attention spans are shorter and shorter and shorter, but on the other hand, stories continue to be what cut through the noise.
Jesse Hirsch 00:13:56
They continue to be what kind of connect people, especially to brands, when it comes to desire or trust or other emotions.
Jesse Hirsch 00:14:04
So to what extent does storytelling get squeezed by AI and kind of squeezed by targeted marketing rather than something that brands need to invest in as part of their lore or as part of their broader identity and essence?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:14:21
Yeah, well, I don't see them as being screwed.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:14:24
I see them, how can they incorporate, you know, each into the other world?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:14:28
So you talk about storytelling and actually like the way we told story is, well, you know, through, of course, through images, through video, through sound, through experience.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:14:41
And I think like the, the world of, you know, like image generation and video generation through AI just allowed brand to be so much more creative and especially for small brands, because, you know, when we talk about brands, of course it's like the, you know, big brands that we do consulting with, but we also work with smaller brands and you know, they don't have the 20,000 budget to hire like a studio to do like a 5 second commercial.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:15:07
But with AI now they actually have the ability to do that in a very captivating way, I would say, you know, with AI.
Jesse Hirsch 00:15:16
So, and, and let me get you to, to double down on that because we've had a few guests on the podcast that are using AI tools for creative purposes.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:15:25
Yeah.
Jesse Hirsch 00:15:25
And it's been interesting to kind of get their user experience as creators, as agencies in terms of the stuff that they're producing.
Jesse Hirsch 00:15:34
Yeah.
Jesse Hirsch 00:15:35
So it's a two part question.
Jesse Hirsch 00:15:36
How has that been, how these experiments and projects been for you?
Jesse Hirsch 00:15:40
And do you see any clear leaders?
Jesse Hirsch 00:15:42
Like, are there any tools that you're like, I really like this.
Jesse Hirsch 00:15:46
And this is the Kind of thing that I would encourage people to play with and experiment with.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:15:50
Okay, well, I'm going to start with the second question.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:15:53
The answer is quicker for me.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:15:54
I will say I don't know because the tool changed so much.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:15:57
I remember I was watching for one of my clients, I was trying to figure out how we can generate a new stray of AI photography for the E commerce website.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:16:10
Right.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:16:11
So we did some research and we identified one tool that was good for us, that was not perfect, but good for us.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:16:16
So by the time the client came to me, I did my research with the client, went to production, a new tool already surfaced and was better than us.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:16:26
So we were like, okay, we had the best at this time, but things changed so quickly that now it's another one.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:16:33
So I'm pretty sure, by the way, people watch this video, whatever tool, I can say right now, maybe it's not going to be the best.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:16:40
So I think it's good to know.
Jesse Hirsch 00:16:41
Although for the record, we will be publishing this video an hour after the moment we are recording.
Jesse Hirsch 00:16:46
But your point is valid.
Jesse Hirsch 00:16:48
Your point is valid?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:16:49
Yeah, I mean, you know, like, things change all the time.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:16:52
So I think we like in this phase when it's like up and down, up and down, up and down.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:16:56
And of course you never want to waste time looking for perfection.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:17:00
You want to find a tool that you, that looks good for you, that you can use.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:17:04
And don't try to always find the perfect tool because, you know, it's like a new, a new market.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:17:10
So they're going to evolve, they're going to change.
Jesse Hirsch 00:17:12
Let me then reframe the original question.
Jesse Hirsch 00:17:15
What is your process of experimentation?
Jesse Hirsch 00:17:17
What is your process of learning?
Jesse Hirsch 00:17:19
So that as an agency, on the one hand, you're not allowing to, you know, have perfection as an obstacle.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:17:26
Yeah.
Jesse Hirsch 00:17:26
But you do have to be on the landscape.
Jesse Hirsch 00:17:28
You do have to be swimming in the ecosystem and trying out the tools.
Jesse Hirsch 00:17:32
What's your strategy there?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:17:34
Well, it all started with the use case, you know, like, what does the client want at the end of the day?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:17:38
And I will, I will have a different accommodation for like a premium luxury clients because they expect like a different type of video and software.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:17:48
If I'm considering like a small brand, for example, you know, so like a small brand we can have like a, like a more relatable design, you know, like it just need to look normal in a way it doesn't have to look perfect.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:17:59
But then for your like higher brand, it needs to look like a $10,000 photo shoot.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:18:06
So.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:18:07
Yeah, so we will always try to start with the use case.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:18:11
What is the requirement for the clients?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:18:13
And then, of course, test many tools and try to.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:18:16
I mean, I talk to a lot of people in the AI industry.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:18:18
They know more than me, and I will ask them, like, oh, I need this shoot for this Hermes type of brand.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:18:24
They have this idea for this campaign.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:18:26
We need, like a couple of videos and shoots and images.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:18:30
What can we use?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:18:32
And most of the time it's a combination of different tools, plus maybe some human work at the end, especially if you're looking for these really great works.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:18:42
AI is great right now.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:18:44
It would give you maybe 90% of the work, but you will still need this 10% of expert that can maybe fix a few things and make it look good.
Jesse Hirsch 00:18:52
Then allow me to bring that back to storytelling.
Jesse Hirsch 00:18:54
To what extent do you have to either hold the hand of the client or push the client to better storytelling?
Jesse Hirsch 00:19:03
Or do they come with a story and then you're helping them use the tools to bring that story to life?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:19:09
Oh, yeah, no, they would come with the story because we can't come for the story.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:19:12
We're not the brands.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:19:12
Right?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:19:13
So the story of the brand is something that even we at agency who work with our clients for the longest time is something that we, you know, we don't work on this aspect of their business.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:19:23
So they come with a story and we just help them tell the story in a good way, in a way that it's effective and hopefully will drive sale.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:19:31
So they usually come with the story.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:19:33
And of course, we will have our feedback, you know, because we're looking at what's happening in the market and, you know, we see the trends, we see what people are reacting to, and we can basically, like.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:19:44
Because, you know, like a story, you have like a story, you have this thing that exists, the story to tell, but then it's about the angle as well.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:19:51
You know, you can tell a story, like 10 different ways.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:19:54
Which way is the best for your brand based on what you want to achieve in the market from, like, a commercial point of view.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:20:00
So we'll help them shape the story in a way that it makes sense for the market, for the customer, and hopefully for the sales process.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:20:09
And AI will help us actually do that.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:20:12
Especially when you want to iterate through, like, different, you know, like different ways to tell a phrase, you know, like different rephrasing system.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:20:21
They will give you.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:20:22
AI, will give you ideas.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:20:24
It will help with the creative process.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:20:26
But at the end of the day, I do believe, and that one of My belief right now you mentioned in a couple of months, I do believe that you still need a human person, like a real person for the 10 to 20%, because AI is not that great at creating content that feels real, that connects on an emotional level.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:20:47
So you still need that aspect that needs to be done by a human being.
Jesse Hirsch 00:20:53
And that's been the through line really of a lot of our conversations, that AI helps expand your capacity, it allows you to have more options.
Jesse Hirsch 00:21:03
But fundamentally, the human touch, the human oversight, the human direction is the difference between excellent AI products or outputs and mediocre ones.
Jesse Hirsch 00:21:16
But paradoxically, this does bring us to the larger issue of SEO or search engine optimization, because that is fundamentally how you're getting the sales, how you're getting the attention, how you're getting the clicks.
Jesse Hirsch 00:21:30
It strikes me now that we're in this bit of a paradox where on the one hand you have AI helping you with the SEO, coming up with words, coming up with phrases, coming up with different ways to position the content, position the stories so that they are as accessible as possible.
Jesse Hirsch 00:21:49
But at the same time AI is kind of killing the search engine.
Jesse Hirsch 00:21:53
Right.
Jesse Hirsch 00:21:53
Increasingly we're not getting the results anymore, we're just getting the summary.
Jesse Hirsch 00:21:57
And maybe you're lucky if your link was in that summary or mentioned in that summary.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:22:02
Yeah.
Jesse Hirsch 00:22:03
So I'm curious how you see this dynamic or how you see this conflict playing out in the industry.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:22:09
Yeah, Especially in issue of SEO.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:22:11
I think it changed for the couple of weeks.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:22:14
First I was thinking like, yeah, SEO is such a good tool to use in SEO.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:22:18
It allows you to create more content.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:22:21
And I mean, to be fair, I mean I'm an SEO guy as well and SEO like content that is produced only for the sake of SEO, usually like really bad.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:22:32
You need to think about the customer.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:22:33
So I, even as a customer, when I look something online and I see like a tech that's obviously like SEO written gives no value, I, I'm, you know, I'm mad.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:22:43
Right.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:22:44
So unfortunately we probably see more and more of that with, with, with, with AI and that's a shame.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:22:52
But like what can you do?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:22:53
Like unless Google starts to strike every, every SEO based content.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:22:57
But at the same times, and I think it's happening right now, people are using a little bit less on Google.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:23:04
I mean, I think like last year TikTok became the most viewed website.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:23:09
So people will actually are more likely to search on TikTok or YouTube than Google.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:23:14
That was a big hit for SEO.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:23:16
But I think right now I was literally on a call with a client today and you know, I always ask them like, how did you find about this?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:23:22
And they say, Well, I asked ChatGPT what would be the best E commerce agency for my store.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:23:28
And they tell me, you.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:23:29
And I was like, I just got the lead from ChatGPT.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:23:32
It's crazy, you know, so people don't run towards Google anymore.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:23:37
They go to ChatGPT because it's cheaper, accessible, and the content just makes sense.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:23:43
Even I, I know how to write like an SEO query.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:23:46
Sometimes it just makes more sense to go through ChatGPT.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:23:49
So we're probably gonna hopefully see a new brand of SEO which will be like, I don't know, like a AI optimized content strategy or something, you know.
Jesse Hirsch 00:23:59
But maybe that's not SEO to your point.
Jesse Hirsch 00:24:02
That's something new.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:24:03
That's something new because, well, in, at the moment, you know, AI, they are still reading from the web.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:24:09
So every content that is good SEO will be, I think probably be regarded as more relevant by the, the AI tool.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:24:19
But at some point, some people will figure out a way to, I don't know, like feed like some content directly into like chatgpt, like to parasite the content and, you know, and that, you know, something is fun is going to happen.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:24:32
Like you're going to ask a question and they're going to say, oh yeah, this guy is probably the best to contact.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:24:36
And he was like, how did this guy end up here?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:24:38
You know, well, he's probably like an expert in AI content reduction or something.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:24:43
I'm pretty sure that's going to happen.
Jesse Hirsch 00:24:45
I mean, hopefully 100 and whoever does it first, you know, they're going to have a successful business for everyone else is going to want to do it after.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:24:53
Yeah, exactly.
Jesse Hirsch 00:24:53
And to your point, I've been on the Internet for several decades and my test of any search engine is to ask it what it knows about me, because I'm the authority on me.
Jesse Hirsch 00:25:04
And if I say, okay, what do you know about me?
Jesse Hirsch 00:25:06
And I asked Deep Seek over the weekend about me, and the answer was way better than anything ChatGPT has ever given me.
Jesse Hirsch 00:25:15
So I was impressed.
Jesse Hirsch 00:25:16
The Chinese clearly know who I am and have a file on my political activities.
Jesse Hirsch 00:25:23
But speaking of which, you know, to put you on the spot, do you give us.
Jesse Hirsch 00:25:29
As you know, we mostly are Canadian listeners, but we actually have, I look this in our analytics, we've actually got 15% of our listeners are in France.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:25:38
Hey, bonjour.
Jesse Hirsch 00:25:41
And I ask you this as a geek, as a tech person, but also as an Entrepreneur, what's your take on French politics right now?
Jesse Hirsch 00:25:50
Because certainly politics around the world seems to be kind of chaotic thanks to the United States.
Jesse Hirsch 00:25:56
So give our listeners a bit of a take on what you think is going on in France with Macron.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:26:02
You mean globally?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:26:03
I mean, I don't really look at politics that much.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:26:05
I tend to focus more on business, I tend to be in my thing.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:26:10
But I've been hearing a lot of things right now about, well, French not only, but also like you know, the European government and especially what's happening with, with startup.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:26:21
And I don't know, I do feel like when Macron got elected, you know, like a lot of the business startup world was really, I'm gonna say not happy but you know, enthusiastic.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:26:34
You know, oh, we have a president that actually like pro business plus stuff like that.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:26:37
And that was, I think that was great.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:26:39
You know, he had this idea of this startup nation which I do believe was a good idea.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:26:43
I do believe startup and allowing people to create beyond their own and being able to, you know, like to capitalize on everybody's resources and intelligence to make the, the country greater.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:26:56
I think it's a good idea.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:26:57
I do believe people have a better opportunity to participate in the common efforts when they are, when they are able to create companies and do great things.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:27:09
But I feel like, I feel like right now we are kind of falling short a little bit, you know, like because European and maybe that's their way.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:27:17
I feel like they try to regulate, regulate, regulate which, which you want of course, but it, for me it doesn't make sense to regulate to the point that progress stops because you can only regulate what you control, right?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:27:33
So if you regulate too much your own company, your own advancements.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:27:37
Well, the China, Chinese, they're not going to follow your regulation.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:27:40
They're going to advance, advance, advanced to the point that your progress will not even matter because the competitor is just way too far ahead.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:27:49
So you know, I mean that's the way we are.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:27:54
Like even when, I don't know if you guys know about this in Canada, but like grdp I guess it's the name in like the privacy law.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:28:03
You know, when it came, when he came, I was like, the people who made this law obviously don't know anything about Internet and how it works.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:28:12
I mean I understand the privacy is intra important, right?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:28:16
You want to be able for people to go online, shop, communicate in, in a safe way when their data communication is, is protected.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:28:26
But the way they went about it, I mean, I don't even know if they know what a cookie is, you know, and I'm like, what?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:28:31
Like how?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:28:33
So you know, it's, it's, it's.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:28:36
They're trying to make protection but they don't know what the hell they're talking about.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:28:40
So then the loadout doesn't make sense and they hurt more people.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:28:44
So many people have had to spend so much money with the new cookie bar that I hate every time I said, I'm like, nobody knows what this is about.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:28:52
Everybody click.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:28:53
Yes.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:28:53
People who click, no, they don't know what they're clicking.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:28:55
No, it doesn't prevent anything from the end of the day, you know, so.
Jesse Hirsch 00:28:59
And to your point, it becomes a barrier for small businesses because large businesses, they can do the regulatory compliance, but small businesses can't afford it.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:29:08
Yeah.
Jesse Hirsch 00:29:09
And I think also to, to affirm your point, as America becomes more isolationist, as America becomes more controversial, Europe should invest in startups.
Jesse Hirsch 00:29:19
Europe should create a startup culture that allows for them to take the lead both economically and morally as America starts shooting itself in the foot.
Jesse Hirsch 00:29:33
So hopefully they see that opportunity.
Jesse Hirsch 00:29:37
But this brings us to our last segment that we have at every meta views, which is the shout out.
Jesse Hirsch 00:29:44
You know, the Internet being what it is that we kind of learn from each other and find stuff from each other, this is a chance.
Jesse Hirsch 00:29:52
If there's anyone you want to promote, if there's anyone that you think our audience should know more about, kind of as an each one teach one model.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:30:01
Oh wow, that's a good one.
Jesse Hirsch 00:30:05
Who's inspired you?
Jesse Hirsch 00:30:06
Who do you follow for insights and ideas?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:30:10
Insights and id?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:30:12
Well, I mean, okay, let me get a shout out to my business partner because we started this agency together, right?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:30:19
So it's like, it's like a two men's job to start this agency and we've grown to like a 20 plus team now.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:30:24
And it's funny because we both have such a different type of profile.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:30:29
Like I'm a geek guy, like really into gigging and technology.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:30:33
He's a graphical designer guy.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:30:35
His family is like from his dad, I think was a sculpture.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:30:39
His granddad was like a famous painter.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:30:42
But we kind of like both reconnect in this world of technology.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:30:46
And we had this agency when we helped fashion brand and luxury brands.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:30:51
And I come from a technical side so I'm able to help my client on a digital and marketing approach.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:30:57
But he's also focusing on the design and does it feel good?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:02
Does it look good?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:03
Because I don't know how to make a website look good.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:05
Like this is a website.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:06
He made a design.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:08
I cannot make this one look so good.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:10
And as you said earlier, looking good, yes, it's nice.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:16
But you talked about the meta glasses and how, yes, they are ray ban, but we stay meta.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:21
Well, you probably know about the project, the failed Google project that they had with the glasses.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:27
I think the reason why they failed is because they were ugly.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:30
So people didn't want to wear them on their head during the day.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:34
So aesthetics is also very important when you launch a new project.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:40
It's not just about the technical aspect.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:42
It's about making it great, making it look good.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:45
You want people to want to use and wear your products.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:50
And I think ChatGPT made that great.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:51
ChatGPT was just a chat.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:53
AI existed like way before ChatGPT, like 3.5.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:31:56
But they were the first one to make it usable and fun to use.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:32:02
And I do believe that people start to catch up on that, but not all the time.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:32:06
But you're having a good designer on your team that can think about the user experience.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:32:12
I think it's really paramount for the success of any enterprise.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:32:16
Shout out to Antoine.
Jesse Hirsch 00:32:18
Right on.
Jesse Hirsch 00:32:18
And other than your website, which we brought up and it's KNR Paris, where can people find you on the Internet?
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:32:26
Well, we started like a YouTube channel when we.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:32:29
We want to share a lot of our knowledge and our strategy.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:32:33
So we talked about SEO.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:32:34
So we released this Case Studio, like exactly how we grow this website to like 1 million plus revenue using like only SEO, for example.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:32:42
So you just type my name Gabrielle Cam on YouTube and hopefully you'll find me.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:32:46
Unless somebody did like an SEO trick on me, but yeah.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:32:49
And then on LinkedIn, of course, Gabrielle came.
Molnuveau Ami Gabriel 00:32:51
I'm really easy to find.
Jesse Hirsch 00:32:53
Right on.
Jesse Hirsch 00:32:54
And speaking of SEO tricks, don't click on the pronunciation button on Gabrielle's LinkedIn profile because it's a trap.
Jesse Hirsch 00:33:04
Messi for coming on the show.
Jesse Hirsch 00:33:06
This has been another episode of Meta Views.
Jesse Hirsch 00:33:10
You can find us on all the different socials.
Jesse Hirsch 00:33:14
We'll upload this video really quickly because as Gabriel mentioned, otherwise it could be obsolete by tomorrow.
Jesse Hirsch 00:33:21
The pace of change that we live in.
Jesse Hirsch 00:33:24
But that's it for another show.
Jesse Hirsch 00:33:26
We'll be back soon.
Jesse Hirsch 00:33:28
Let us know if you have any comments or questions.
Jesse Hirsch 00:33:31
Otherwise, see you soon.
Jesse Hirsch 00:33:34
Take care.
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