Jesse Hirsh engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Michaell Magrutsche, delving into the pressing issues surrounding awareness, technology, and humanity. They explore the idea that while technology, particularly AI, continues to evolve rapidly, human consciousness seems to lag behind, leading to a disconnect between our technological advancements and personal growth. Michaell emphasizes the importance of reclaiming our humanity and awareness, suggesting that genuine creativity acts as a vital medium for expressing and understanding our interconnectedness with nature and each other. The discussion touches on the detrimental effects of distraction in a fast-paced, technology-driven world and the need to shift our focus from mere knowledge to deeper awareness. Ultimately, this episode serves as a call to reconnect with ourselves and the world around us, highlighting that true fulfillment lies in recognizing our place within the larger tapestry of life.
Takeaways:
Links referenced in this episode:
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Hi, I'm Jesse Hirsch, and welcome to Metaviews, recorded live in front of an automated audience.
Jesse 00:00:12
And today, perhaps we're looking at antidotes.
Jesse 00:00:17
Perhaps we're looking at a path to sanity.
Jesse 00:00:20
It's the smart of art with my new friend Michael.
Jesse 00:00:26
And you know, Michael, I start every show in kind of the tradition of most media by starting with the news.
Jesse 00:00:35
And I do this partly because Metaviews publishes a daily newsletter.
Jesse 00:00:42
And this daily newsletter today was looking at social media.
Jesse 00:00:47
The idea that we are in a real pivotal point in terms of how social media is constituted, how people use social media, that the ongoing politicization of social media.
Jesse 00:01:01
But often this is really an opportunity for me to throw to the guest and say, is there any news that you'd like to share?
Jesse 00:01:09
This could be personal news.
Jesse 00:01:10
This could be world news.
Jesse 00:01:12
This could be something that, you know, has caught your attention, however small, that you want to share with the world.
Michael 00:01:18
Oh, I'd love to share that one.
Michael 00:01:20
You're going to love this, Jesse.
Michael 00:01:23
Okay, AI, this came a couple days ago to me.
Michael 00:01:26
That's my news that I pick up.
Michael 00:01:28
Yeah.
Jesse 00:01:28
Yes, yes.
Michael 00:01:29
So AI stole.
Michael 00:01:33
So we created something else.
Michael 00:01:35
I always knew that, that we put all our energy and creativity in our product.
Michael 00:01:42
Products like the cars, the technology, all that stuff, right?
Michael 00:01:46
But we are not actually putting anything in our consciousness awareness, you know, so a lot of people, you know, try to measure that.
Michael 00:01:56
And they said, yeah, we put technology is about 400.
Michael 00:02:01
And I never believed that.
Michael 00:02:03
Michael 00:02:04
I said three to 400 times more evolved is technology than humans.
Michael 00:02:11
So when we created a knife, right, the knife didn't tell us what to do.
Michael 00:02:16
We know to cut a sausage or stab somebody.
Michael 00:02:20
That's what we found out.
Michael 00:02:21
Or we carved something in woods.
Michael 00:02:25
Now, we have done that so much in technology.
Michael 00:02:28
Computer was gotten crazy, but we never even focused on ourselves, right?
Michael 00:02:33
So we are crazy.
Michael 00:02:35
We get on drugs.
Michael 00:02:38
Our mind is whacked out because we're not evolving, but we help evolve technology.
Michael 00:02:44
And now AI is so much evolved that we.
Michael 00:02:48
And we have not evolved.
Michael 00:02:50
So we just give up and say, AI is the greatest thing.
Michael 00:02:53
You don't need anything anymore.
Michael 00:02:54
Jesse, come on, stop it.
Michael 00:02:56
Just go to ChatGPT.
Michael 00:02:57
It will tell you.
Michael 00:02:58
So what we did with that, because 20 years ago, it was like you had knowledge.
Michael 00:03:05
You were an expert, you, you had value.
Michael 00:03:08
Now you have no value because we eliminated knowledge from literally one year to another.
Michael 00:03:16
Knowledge is irrelevant.
Michael 00:03:18
Awareness is.
Michael 00:03:19
That's what you and I do.
Michael 00:03:21
The awareness of what, what we're doing, what we're talking right now, but because AI can never have awareness.
Michael 00:03:28
It can have knowledge, but it can never have the awareness.
Michael 00:03:31
But this is the.
Michael 00:03:32
This is how.
Michael 00:03:34
I mean, not only does it take our jobs that are repetitively.
Michael 00:03:37
Because the moment AIC is a repetitive job, we can.
Michael 00:03:41
It will do it because nobody wants to deal.
Michael 00:03:44
See, technology doesn't want to deal with humans because they're not as accurate.
Michael 00:03:49
They're not.
Michael 00:03:50
And so also cost money.
Michael 00:03:51
So no, let's.
Michael 00:03:54
So starving humans, you know, and.
Michael 00:03:57
And we are knowledge either.
Jesse 00:04:00
We are definitely going to spend some time shortly talking about awareness.
Jesse 00:04:03
Although you have evoked quite conveniently the subject of our second segment, which we call WTF or what's the Future?
Jesse 00:04:15
Because as a future focused podcast, we like to ask our guests, is there something that you are.
Jesse 00:04:25
That you have your eyes on?
Jesse 00:04:26
It could be that something you're looking forward to in the future.
Jesse 00:04:30
It could be something that you see as a challenge in the future.
Jesse 00:04:35
It could be again, something personal in your own future.
Michael 00:04:38
I think it's a segregation of what I talked about.
Michael 00:04:41
It's the segregation.
Michael 00:04:42
I think the world, it's already segregating into technology, AI, world, robotics, and the other one will rediscover humanity because it took us, you know, billions from a one seller to being human.
Michael 00:05:02
It's millions of years.
Michael 00:05:04
And we believe we can access that knowledge and study nature, which when we study nature, we actually learn, really learn.
Michael 00:05:13
And also we evolve too, because we are part of it.
Michael 00:05:15
We cannot be against.
Michael 00:05:16
See, so that is one part.
Michael 00:05:19
The other part is going to be all technology.
Michael 00:05:22
We'll move to Mars.
Michael 00:05:23
We'll have move to anything.
Michael 00:05:26
It will be very hard.
Jesse 00:05:28
And when you say segregation, do you mean like in conflict or do you mean completely separate?
Michael 00:05:35
Separate.
Michael 00:05:35
We won't see each other because we don't see each other now.
Michael 00:05:39
Because there's certain things.
Michael 00:05:41
You sit somewhere and people walk by you.
Michael 00:05:43
They don't even see you.
Michael 00:05:45
And also they're.
Michael 00:05:46
So is this the first thing?
Jesse 00:05:48
Is this like two congruent worlds?
Jesse 00:05:51
Like two worlds that coexist and yet they are completely distinct?
Michael 00:05:55
They're already.
Michael 00:05:56
There are already many parallel worlds already.
Michael 00:06:01
But the big one, the physical, will really segregate.
Michael 00:06:05
So that's, That's.
Jesse 00:06:07
I'm curious.
Jesse 00:06:08
Please elaborate.
Jesse 00:06:10
Like, give us a vision of like, describe some examples, please.
Michael 00:06:16
Elon just said that they did with digital.
Michael 00:06:21
They did a digital copy of the world.
Michael 00:06:25
How can that ever work?
Michael 00:06:26
It took us millions of years to create and there's a couple of guys coming and in 10 years, they're going to create double the world in digital realm.
Michael 00:06:35
It's like the metaverse.
Michael 00:06:36
People are not even grounded in the now.
Michael 00:06:39
Here and now.
Michael 00:06:40
They go into another world, which is where they can be superstars, right?
Michael 00:06:46
Yeah.
Michael 00:06:46
But it's not fulfilling because we are all interconnected.
Michael 00:06:50
And so the delusion of we are not interconnected is in the technology world, we're in the natural world, in the human centric world.
Michael 00:07:01
We know we all interconnected.
Michael 00:07:03
We know we are part of nature.
Michael 00:07:04
We know that animals, for example, every dog is different.
Michael 00:07:08
Every single dog, any cat is different.
Michael 00:07:11
If you had a couple of cats, a couple dogs, a couple pets, they are different.
Michael 00:07:16
So this is going to be all more, you know, that's why I segregated.
Michael 00:07:22
You know, I was like till 50.
Michael 00:07:24
I was totally system relevant.
Michael 00:07:25
I wanted to just, you know, be the big shot.
Michael 00:07:27
Da, da, da, da.
Michael 00:07:29
I don't care.
Michael 00:07:29
I need to know anything.
Michael 00:07:31
I don't care anymore.
Michael 00:07:32
Because knowledge is gone anyway.
Michael 00:07:34
It's all about the awareness.
Jesse 00:07:35
You know, part of the reason we have this what's the future?
Jesse 00:07:39
Segment.
Jesse 00:07:40
Right.
Jesse 00:07:40
Is everyone's conception of the future is to preview where we're headed with this.
Jesse 00:07:47
A form of awareness, right?
Jesse 00:07:49
It's an expression of their awareness of their present and therefore their future.
Jesse 00:07:54
But the other side to the future discussion is trust.
Jesse 00:07:59
Because our sense of the future is very much a reflection of kind of who we trust and the stories we hear and which stories we trust.
Jesse 00:08:09
So you've given quite a compelling vision of the future.
Jesse 00:08:12
And where you and I have a lot of overlap, which we'll get into, is the human and nature being inherent and intertwined.
Jesse 00:08:20
But do you trust?
Jesse 00:08:22
But let me ask you this question.
Jesse 00:08:24
Do you trust Mr.
Jesse 00:08:26
Musk?
Jesse 00:08:26
Do you trust the champions of AI and the predictions for the future that they make?
Jesse 00:08:34
Or are you appropriating from their stories the pieces that match your awareness, so it's not so much that you trust them appropriate.
Michael 00:08:44
The second appropriate awareness.
Michael 00:08:46
I have nothing against.
Michael 00:08:47
Elon is a part of me.
Michael 00:08:48
I'm a part of Elon.
Michael 00:08:49
You too?
Jesse 00:08:50
Sure.
Michael 00:08:50
We are all interconnected.
Michael 00:08:51
So he has free will and he can believe we're gonna get into a digital world and we're gonna move to Mars and we're gonna do this and whatever, but.
Michael 00:09:01
And also, I think he has a lot of fear also that we're gonna kill each other on the Earth and then that's why he has to go to Mars.
Michael 00:09:10
And it's just better surviving than even though it's not fun.
Michael 00:09:13
On Mars.
Michael 00:09:14
Beautiful, you know, this is so beautiful.
Michael 00:09:16
The Earth.
Jesse 00:09:17
Well, he also believes that there aren't gonna be enough of us, which is why he's having children with anyone who will carry his child.
Jesse 00:09:25
Right.
Jesse 00:09:26
So I ask only because I, as a skeptic, that if.
Jesse 00:09:31
If.
Jesse 00:09:32
If he says left, I say right.
Jesse 00:09:34
If he says jump, I say duck.
Jesse 00:09:37
And to your point, it is based on the inherent connection that I share with him in our shared humanity.
Jesse 00:09:44
And I just see him as a bizarro world that again, my instincts tell me to do the opposite, but I feel a real compulsion.
Jesse 00:09:53
And this is where we.
Jesse 00:09:56
We get into our feature discussion as part of every episode of Metaphys.
Jesse 00:10:00
That was our turkey pres going in to nest in an old oak tree.
Jesse 00:10:04
Let's talk about awareness.
Jesse 00:10:06
Because it strikes me that awareness is both kind of central to.
Jesse 00:10:12
To what it is that you do as an artist, as a philosopher, as an intellectual, but also we are at an interesting moment of collective awareness, an interesting moment of individual awareness.
Jesse 00:10:25
And you alluded to it earlier when you said, you know, technology is evolving at this rapid pace, but what about humans, right?
Michael 00:10:33
And nobody even talks about it, right?
Jesse 00:10:35
And in our lifetime, we are both of a certain vintage that our world has changed so much, and yet humans have not.
Michael 00:10:44
Right?
Jesse 00:10:45
And I'm curious to hear that paradox that while we are at this moment where it seems the concept of awareness is starting to rise, that is becoming more conscious, people becoming more aware of being aware.
Jesse 00:11:01
That's today's meta views.
Jesse 00:11:04
And yet, as humans, are we evolving?
Jesse 00:11:07
Are we adapting?
Jesse 00:11:08
Please, Michael, I would love to hear your perspective.
Michael 00:11:10
We are not.
Michael 00:11:12
The only thing why we are not evolving is because we are so distracted by the technology and by the newest stuff of the new.
Michael 00:11:22
And then the only way even the media can hold on is also distracting us by selecting our.
Michael 00:11:31
Because nobody's perfect, right?
Michael 00:11:33
Selecting our faults and amplifying our thoughts like crazy.
Michael 00:11:38
Like, oh, King Charles didn't look right to his kids or whatever, you know, so.
Michael 00:11:45
So we.
Michael 00:11:45
It's.
Jesse 00:11:46
It's.
Michael 00:11:46
The negativity is to get attention.
Michael 00:11:50
Yeah.
Michael 00:11:50
So.
Michael 00:11:51
So, so we do attention.
Michael 00:11:53
And it's.
Michael 00:11:54
And nobody knows.
Michael 00:11:55
We all try to survive.
Michael 00:11:58
And we are all in the.
Michael 00:11:59
In a scarcity.
Michael 00:12:00
You know, we created that over.
Michael 00:12:02
This is what I discovered is over generation.
Michael 00:12:05
It's never enough.
Michael 00:12:06
So if you and I make $100,000 right now, tomorrow we have to make 120.
Michael 00:12:11
So it's never enough.
Michael 00:12:12
So we can scale.
Michael 00:12:13
That's the secret.
Michael 00:12:15
What, all of a sudden, you know, 10 years, five years ago.
Michael 00:12:17
Everybody says scaling, scaling.
Michael 00:12:19
What is scaling?
Michael 00:12:20
Oh, expanding.
Michael 00:12:21
Okay, you expand.
Michael 00:12:23
But when you can't expand anymore, let's say we have.
Michael 00:12:25
In Ottawa, we have all horses.
Michael 00:12:27
Right.
Michael 00:12:28
We can't examine.
Michael 00:12:29
So what, what made us the number one horse tender.
Michael 00:12:33
Yeah.
Michael 00:12:33
Is.
Michael 00:12:34
Oh, because we're really good with horses.
Michael 00:12:36
We have enough personnel that knows we have the good hay, we have the good food, we have all this stuff.
Michael 00:12:45
And what happens then, you know, when we have scaled everything so there is only a one hour?
Michael 00:12:51
Because there's no opposite.
Michael 00:12:53
It's not hold cold.
Michael 00:12:55
Systemically hot cold, right?
Michael 00:12:56
Wrong.
Michael 00:12:57
But it's never enough.
Michael 00:12:59
No matter what.
Michael 00:13:00
Has no opposite.
Michael 00:13:01
It has only an alternative.
Michael 00:13:03
Safe costs, cost saving.
Michael 00:13:05
So when, let's say we have all the horses now we have to go cost saving.
Michael 00:13:10
Because we have always.
Michael 00:13:10
It's never enough every year.
Michael 00:13:12
So we go in cost saving.
Michael 00:13:14
So we literally castrate the very point that made us famous and made us number one in Ottawa, made us the kings of horses.
Michael 00:13:25
And we have to cut that because we have to save costs.
Michael 00:13:28
Less food, less blankets, less people that tend the horses.
Michael 00:13:33
The, the stable state don't get clean.
Michael 00:13:36
There's no, you know, we're just saving, saving, saving.
Michael 00:13:39
And then we take everything from humans.
Michael 00:13:41
We throw them out.
Michael 00:13:42
So it's insanity.
Michael 00:13:46
It's absolute insanity.
Michael 00:13:47
And that drives everybody for generations.
Michael 00:13:50
That's why the financial principles need to be updated.
Michael 00:13:53
They're outdated.
Jesse 00:13:55
You seem to draw attention.
Jesse 00:13:58
I'd like you to elaborate or unpack.
Jesse 00:14:00
Which is between awareness and attention.
Jesse 00:14:04
Right.
Jesse 00:14:04
And almost as if there is that attention is part of the distraction and awareness involves attention, a different relationship with attention.
Jesse 00:14:15
Am I reading you right there?
Michael 00:14:17
I wasn't even thinking.
Michael 00:14:19
Thank you for the making me aware of this.
Michael 00:14:21
I wasn't aware of that.
Jesse 00:14:22
So.
Michael 00:14:23
Yeah, that is a kind of.
Michael 00:14:25
Absolutely.
Michael 00:14:26
I mean, look, we have knowledge, we have attention to become aware.
Michael 00:14:32
So we have to experience the physical life and we can do that with.
Michael 00:14:37
That's why everybody wanted to have knowledge.
Michael 00:14:39
So they became aware of the higher truth, you know, and knowledge is now gone.
Michael 00:14:44
So we have given, literally giving that up before we know, before we know how we going to value humans.
Michael 00:14:52
See now we have not.
Michael 00:14:53
Well, I'm always technology, technology, technology.
Michael 00:14:56
Now we, we don't value humans anymore.
Michael 00:14:59
So now that's gone.
Michael 00:15:00
How can humans ever go there?
Michael 00:15:02
Because everybody's in fight flight.
Michael 00:15:03
They want to survive.
Jesse 00:15:04
So, so let's bring it then to, you know, the second pillar of our conversation, which is humanity.
Jesse 00:15:10
Right.
Jesse 00:15:11
What are the.
Jesse 00:15:12
And this is a Two part question.
Jesse 00:15:14
What are the methods to reclaim that humanity?
Jesse 00:15:17
Right.
Jesse 00:15:18
To reconnect with that humanity?
Jesse 00:15:20
And the second part, how does that tie into our notion of awareness and collective awareness?
Jesse 00:15:25
Because I assume that they're intrinsic.
Michael 00:15:28
Yeah.
Michael 00:15:29
The thing is, it's a loop.
Michael 00:15:30
Because if you're not, for example, if you're a woman and you wake up in the morning and you feel really sick, now the second time, sick.
Michael 00:15:39
So what did we eat?
Michael 00:15:40
Hey, tell me, Jesse, what we ate yesterday.
Michael 00:15:43
And you say, hey, do we have anything that's rotten or anything?
Michael 00:15:47
And then you go to a doctor on the third day and you find out you're pregnant.
Michael 00:15:51
Do you see how the whole perspective changes?
Michael 00:15:56
Because before you said you did a mistake, then you finally pregnant, that you wanted to be, you know, and it's just completely.
Michael 00:16:05
Because you believe what you feel, you know, and you say, oh my God, it must be that.
Michael 00:16:11
You always need an answer.
Michael 00:16:12
You must be this, it must be that.
Michael 00:16:14
But it often isn't.
Michael 00:16:15
And when doctors look at you, so you need to be aware.
Michael 00:16:19
It's a loop.
Michael 00:16:20
You cannot be aware of humans if you're not aware.
Michael 00:16:24
If you're not aware that humans, for example, are not segregated from nature, if science tells you we are segregated, we can do nature whatever we want, then we're not aware.
Jesse 00:16:35
And where do you think that arrogance comes from?
Jesse 00:16:39
I mean, beyond just science and arrogance?
Michael 00:16:41
Go ahead.
Michael 00:16:43
I don't think it's arrogance.
Michael 00:16:44
I think it's not aware.
Michael 00:16:46
I think people, for example, today, I think all the people want to do good, but good intent, you know, gets you into hell or something.
Michael 00:16:54
There's a wording, it's not about good intent.
Michael 00:16:58
It's about actually effectiveness.
Michael 00:17:00
Because nature is very effective.
Michael 00:17:03
If something doesn't work in nature, it adjusts, adapts, or extinguish the thing.
Jesse 00:17:10
Is this an architectural issue in terms of the cement and the glass of a city environment disconnecting from nature versus in a more green environment in a more natural setting.
Jesse 00:17:24
I assume it's easier to reconnect with that kind of that feedback loop that you're describing.
Michael 00:17:31
Yeah, yeah.
Michael 00:17:31
Because if, if you think you can just, oh, I have think I'm just, you know, it's never enough.
Michael 00:17:39
The financial principles, oh, I have a forest.
Michael 00:17:41
I'm just cutting the forest and sell the wood.
Michael 00:17:44
But sometimes I'm running out.
Michael 00:17:46
If I don't look at the sustainability, you know, I'm running out of it.
Michael 00:17:50
And this, the earth is very abundant.
Michael 00:17:53
And people said, okay, we just take that and we change this and we change that.
Michael 00:17:58
And now we know, we know it after the fact.
Michael 00:18:01
It's so sad that we have to really go into horrible state of being.
Michael 00:18:07
Millions of people are sick, million people are poverty, all this stuff.
Michael 00:18:11
And then we say, oh, now it's much harder than if you say, hey, we are what we are.
Michael 00:18:18
We are part of nature.
Michael 00:18:19
We are all interconnected.
Michael 00:18:21
We can't just be on linear binary thought to say, okay, this is what we do.
Michael 00:18:30
We have systems that are linear on binary thought, but once they establish people, just leave them alone.
Michael 00:18:38
And I'm very propagating that we need to go make life systems that are aligned to the consciousness that we have.
Michael 00:18:46
So we finding out tomorrow that this, when you do this with milk, it kills people.
Michael 00:18:53
We got to stop.
Michael 00:18:54
Or if it's this good, then we promote this is good.
Michael 00:18:59
This milk is good.
Michael 00:19:01
Or what I say, everybody is 101, a part of the whole, which is nature first, not God.
Jesse 00:19:08
Give me some examples of these life systems, like some sort of.
Jesse 00:19:13
And what I'm looking for here, again, short of utopia, is transitions.
Jesse 00:19:19
Right?
Jesse 00:19:20
What are the types of systems that help get us out of this current kind of negative feedback loop?
Michael 00:19:27
I think the first thing, what I would do, the first thing, what's so obvious is to update the financial principles and say, what is the opposite?
Michael 00:19:34
If it's never enough, no matter what we do, because that's rule.
Michael 00:19:40
What is the opposite?
Michael 00:19:41
I'm not having the opposite.
Michael 00:19:42
I probably think because we are human and because we are part of that, so we cannot segregate us out and saying, you know, it's never enough, no matter what, and then just say, okay, it's not.
Michael 00:19:54
Then the humans die, which is basically what it leads to.
Michael 00:19:58
Because, you know, we're creating a scarcity.
Michael 00:20:01
It's never enough, no matter what we do.
Michael 00:20:03
Even if, you know, in the parts of the world where we are abundant, there's overabundance of bullshit, you know, not overabundance of feeling good.
Michael 00:20:12
No, you have 250 cars.
Michael 00:20:15
You have, you know, not one house you need to have a house with.
Jesse 00:20:19
But what is, what's the alternate system, though?
Michael 00:20:23
That's what I'm saying.
Michael 00:20:24
I'm making you aware of it.
Michael 00:20:25
I don't know what the alternate system is.
Michael 00:20:28
I'm saying if you're aware that humans are.
Michael 00:20:31
We are all one on one and we are not all the same, because that's scientifically proven.
Michael 00:20:36
We are, but we are one on one off the whole because nature doesn't make mistake.
Michael 00:20:41
It wouldn't make us.
Michael 00:20:42
It wouldn't make Jesse Jesse.
Michael 00:20:44
And there's not 15 other Jesse's running around, you know.
Michael 00:20:47
No, no, no.
Jesse 00:20:48
Although I have googled on the Internet and there actually are a number of Jesse Hersh's out there, ironically enough.
Jesse 00:20:55
Speaking of which, the smart of art is a fantastic phrase as we sort of get into the pillar of creativity and the role that creativity plays in awareness.
Jesse 00:21:07
Tell me more about the smart of.
Michael 00:21:09
Art as a matter of fact.
Michael 00:21:11
Art creation.
Michael 00:21:12
Because I'm so neurodiverse, I couldn't do anything.
Michael 00:21:16
I stuttered, you know, I couldn't read.
Michael 00:21:20
And the people at that time, you know, 50 years ago, they said, oh, you have to still read.
Michael 00:21:27
We diagnose you as dyslexic, but you still have to do all the stuff everybody else.
Michael 00:21:31
So what the hell, it's like you are white, you are black, but it doesn't make difference.
Michael 00:21:37
So art was my savior.
Michael 00:21:40
Art creation, not art.
Michael 00:21:42
The art I liked also art, obviously, but the art creation and actually art creation made me aware of and that I went into the art creation and taught that and had my own class and whatever.
Michael 00:21:55
And I'm an art advisor and creativity advice.
Michael 00:22:00
And I don't know anything about history, art history, so I'm not interested in that.
Michael 00:22:05
I'm interested in the magic that happens when we create something.
Jesse 00:22:09
You know, the correlation, the connection between creation and awareness and the feedback, you.
Michael 00:22:15
Know, the feedback of that you get to yourself.
Michael 00:22:17
So when you have little kids and they're crazy, then you say, hey, do something, create it.
Michael 00:22:24
And when the kid sees what they created, when they were in the upset, you know, state, they, they actually really, you see them shifting.
Michael 00:22:34
So when I, somebody angry and I put them into front of a thing and let him express the anger on the thing, they actually, you know, or showing that when he come down our sheep and show him this, they.
Michael 00:22:48
You see how that person shifts.
Michael 00:22:51
It's magic, you know, so, so, so that, that's, that's, that's the, the, the art got me actually in the human centricity because I saw there's no.
Michael 00:23:04
Oh, you need to.
Michael 00:23:05
When you see kids draw a house, right?
Michael 00:23:08
And a yard and the cat and whatever, every kid makes it different.
Michael 00:23:12
Every makes it one on one.
Michael 00:23:14
And kids don't say, oh, that's ugly or why do you do this?
Michael 00:23:17
It's just, it's just an instinct.
Michael 00:23:20
Yeah, the instinctual expression is so beautiful.
Jesse 00:23:26
As an educator, as, you know, a champion of creativity, what are the sort of, for lack of a better phrase, Tools.
Jesse 00:23:36
What are the emotional and cultural tools that you help people with so they can achieve that awareness, they can achieve that creativity?
Michael 00:23:45
Because art is something that is one of the biggest teachers and it gives you so much awareness of self.
Michael 00:23:53
You know, know thyself is oracle of Delphi.
Michael 00:23:56
You know, it's just know thyself is still.
Michael 00:23:58
I mean, nobody can refute that, you know, because know thyself is.
Michael 00:24:03
Know that your 101ness, that you are of the whole of whole nature.
Michael 00:24:07
Don't jump into God.
Michael 00:24:08
You know, when people jump into God, that's a problem because it's too far.
Michael 00:24:13
But if you just see it in nature first, you get a sense of godliness, of your own godliness, when you say, hey, I'm a part of this nature and a part of Jesse.
Jesse 00:24:24
But would you recognize that very few know thyself, that we live in a society of distraction where there aren't the right rewards, there aren't the right encouragement, support for people to do what you're asking, even be creative, let alone try to know thyself?
Michael 00:24:45
Yeah, I think everybody knows themselves.
Michael 00:24:48
I think that.
Michael 00:24:50
But we are distracted.
Michael 00:24:53
So when I say to you, Jesse, okay, when you do this, this happens and you're not thinking it's happening to you, you know, I know it's a fact when you do this to that this is happening.
Michael 00:25:05
You know it, you have experienced it, but you're so distracted, you go right into it.
Michael 00:25:10
That's why people have.
Michael 00:25:11
Keep repeating, having accidents, you know, car accidents and whatever, even though they had had them.
Michael 00:25:18
I mean, if you, you, you have one accident, never anymore.
Michael 00:25:21
Good.
Michael 00:25:22
But it's just they're not learning.
Michael 00:25:24
They're learning, they're not becoming aware of.
Michael 00:25:27
And they think, oh, the other person hit me.
Michael 00:25:30
Yeah, you're not segregated.
Jesse 00:25:34
So one of the segments that we like to end on with every episode is called shoutouts.
Jesse 00:25:41
Because, you know, I, I think we tend to stand on the shoulders of giants, certainly when we conceptualize big topics like awareness and humanity and creativity.
Jesse 00:25:55
So are there any thinkers, are there any people, dead or alive, who you think our audience should know about that might help them on the path towards creativity and humanity and awareness?
Jesse 00:26:11
Of course, in addition to yourself, who.
Jesse 00:26:15
Your own website, michaellm.com is a phenomenal resource around your work and your ideas.
Jesse 00:26:22
But who would you shout out?
Jesse 00:26:24
Who do you think the world in particular, our audience needs to pay closer attention to.
Michael 00:26:30
So first of all, I need to tell your audience your teacher is ready when you are.
Michael 00:26:38
So I had so many.
Michael 00:26:39
I started With Tony Robbins, with all these people, you know, and currently I'm working.
Michael 00:26:50
I'm listening.
Michael 00:26:52
I'm not working.
Michael 00:26:53
It's.
Michael 00:26:53
It's.
Michael 00:26:54
Nobody has the answer for you because you're 101, but people have good thoughts and helpful tools to teach you.
Michael 00:27:05
So, for example, I had extreme sleep apnea and asthma.
Michael 00:27:11
And Buteyko, Patrick, what's his name?
Jesse 00:27:16
God.
Michael 00:27:20
Patrick McEwen, for example, he taught me breathing, and that changed my life.
Michael 00:27:26
I mean, I do 40 minutes breathing before I wake up.
Michael 00:27:29
Everything.
Michael 00:27:30
And don't think or meditate or anything.
Michael 00:27:32
I just do the breathing.
Michael 00:27:34
And that helped me physically, mentally, everything.
Michael 00:27:40
And I.
Michael 00:27:42
I didn't know that before I was 55 or something.
Michael 00:27:45
So then Eckatole, the.
Michael 00:27:50
The thing of now, you know, the power of now, those are still stuff that stay with me, you know, I'm not listening to him all the time.
Michael 00:28:00
Or stay.
Michael 00:28:01
And so then you go to Bashar, you go to other people and listen.
Michael 00:28:07
But I'm not taking it.
Michael 00:28:09
I made the mistake.
Michael 00:28:10
I listened to one teacher for very long, and then I saw how limited one voice is, which I see with humans, too.
Michael 00:28:22
I try to connect with as many humans as possible because I see as many life perspectives.
Michael 00:28:29
Also, I have an ability to plug in our mastermind.
Michael 00:28:33
So that's why no podcast is ever the same.
Michael 00:28:37
And it's always, even though I say it in the same thing that I say, you know, creativity, it's about the creativity.
Michael 00:28:45
It's not about the product.
Michael 00:28:46
The product is the icing on the cake.
Michael 00:28:47
If you create a painting that everybody wants, that's great.
Michael 00:28:51
But it doesn't mean that you're a good artist or that this is automatically the stamp that you're a good artist, that you are actually a real artist.
Jesse 00:29:00
It's the journey that matters.
Michael 00:29:02
Always the journey.
Michael 00:29:03
Always the journey.
Jesse 00:29:04
Right on.
Jesse 00:29:05
Well, thank you very much, Michael.
Jesse 00:29:07
I think if I were to take a core lesson from you, sharing your wisdom today, it's the power of diversity and the extent to which there is an infinite level of diversity within our humanity and within the nature that surrounds us.
Jesse 00:29:24
And one's creativity is a medium to tap into that, to express it.
Jesse 00:29:31
So thank you very much, Michael.
Jesse 00:29:32
This has been metaviews.
Jesse 00:29:34
You can find us online, in social, and in the real world, which, quite frankly, is where ideas and knowledge are best shared.
Jesse 00:29:42
So thanks again.
Jesse 00:29:44
We'll see you soon.
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